After my previous post to this blog, I was surprised to discover that my query at TimeForChess - see "The Jerome Gambit is Going to Drive Me... (Part 1)" - drew quick responses.
First, my post:
Looking for more information about an old post by fat lady:
08 May '06 16:54I think the Halloween Gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nxe5) is quite playable way beyond 1600.
An opening which is much worse, but still better than the one which started this thread, is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7 Kxf7 5.Nxe5. I played through a game of Alekhine's once where an amateur tried this against him. Alekhine tried sucessfully to hang onto both the pieces.
WHO can tell me ANYTHING about the game????
Thanks.
Perrypawnpusher
First response:
I suspect that Fat Lady, who was one of the finest posters ever to grace this forum, might have been misremembering this game of Blackburne's: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5+ Nxe5 6.Qh5+ g6 7.Qxe5 d6 8.Qxh8 Qh4 9.0-0 Nf6 10.c3 Ng4 11.h3 Bxf2+ 12.Kh1 Bf5 13.Qxa8 Qxh3 14.gxh3 Be4#
Data Fly
Second response:
Mr. Fine-poster also seems to have mis-remembered black trying to hold on to any pieces, let alone both of them
BigDoggProblem
But I was most impressed by a return message from Fat Lady,
Hi Perry,
I will have a think and get back to you. My memory of it is that Alekhine played Ke6 and then held onto both pieces, rather than saccing his rooks as per the Blackburne game from 1880. I've got quite a lot of old chess books and magazines and maybe the Alekhine game came from one of them (I certainly can't find it online anywhere). I feel sure it was Alekhine because he is, and always has been, my favourite player.
Best wishes,
Oh, no, my expectations are soaring again!
Is this going to be "the real thing", or another disappointment??
Stay tuned.
Occasionally, I like to turn to the internet to search for "Jerome Gambit" or "1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+", just to see if something new or old turns up. Mostly, I find links to this blog (of course) but occasionally I find games or analysis or comments that are worth sharing. For a recent example, see "Evergreen?"
Sometimes, however, I find references that drive me to distraction. For example, there was the poster, years ago, who referred to the above series of moves as the "Salvio Gambit"...
And I don't know how many times I have been excited to see someone post that the Jerome Gambit is their "favorite" opening - only to contact that person and learn that he or she has not saved any of their games...
Recently, I encountered an old post by fat lady at the TimeForChess website.
08 May '06An opening which is much worse [than the Halloween Gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nxe5) ], but still better than the one which started this thread, is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7 Kxf7 5.Nxe5. I played through a game of Alekhine's once where an amateur tried this against him. Alekhine tried sucessfully to hang onto both the pieces.
Really?
Alekhine playing 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5+ Nxe5 6.Qh5+ Ke6 - my guess as to what was referred to in the "hang[ing] onto both the pieces" line.
Show me the game!
Give me a reference!
An opponent!
A date!
A location!
Anything...
That would be awesome!
I'm afraid that it's not going to happen, though...
Alekhine??
Anyhow, I've posted on the site's forum, and have emailed fat lady. I'm not holding my breath, though waiting for a response.
I don't expect to learn anything more.
Still... I looked in Alekhine's My Best Games of Chess; The Games of Alekhine by Caparrós and Lahde' and Alexander Alekhine's Chess Games, 1902-1946, by Skinner, Alekhine and Verhoeven - just in case.
Sometimes my devotion to the Jerome Gambit truly drives me to distraction.
While it has been suggested that "the best way to refute a gambit is to accept it", there are those who prefer to go one step further, and offer their own aggressive gambit in turn.
Philidor1792 - Stranger
Casual Game, Chess-Samara.ru, 2014
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6
About 4 years ago this blog discussed ways to approach this move (instead of 4...Bc5) in "Jerome Gambit vs Two Knights Defense" Parts 1, 2, 3, 4.
4.Bxf7+
As we have seen earlier in Philidor1792's play, after the alternative 4.Bb3 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ we would have a Delayed Jerome Gambit (see "Jerome Gambit-Inspired Play (Part 4)")
An early peek at this 4.Bxf7+ line occurred in "What's Going On Here?", and an early game was presented in "Opening Tale"; but much of what is in The Database on this line is from Philidor1792's games. (In some, below, he appears as "You".)
By the way, all of the referenced games can now be found in The Database.
4...Kxf7 5.Nxe5+
Some alternatives:
5.c3 Bc5 6.d4 in sTpny - yimansmellsbad, FICS, 2011 (0-1, 28);
5.Ng5+ in caovas - tomi36, 1 1 blitz, lichess.org, 2013 (1-0, 27) and KillerBishop - TheMentalist, 40 5, lichess.org, 2013 (0-1, 17);
5.d4 d5 (5...exd4 6.e5, yorgos - perrypawnpusher, blitz, FICS 2009, [1-0, 48]) in tomas2013 - tomi36, 1 2 blitz, lichess.org, 2013 (1-0, 22);
5.d3 d5 (5... d6 in viejoasquerosos - Killyourking, Redhotpawn.com, 2004 [0-1, 27]) cnselway - boycey, net-chess.com, 2001 (0-1, 11); and, finally
5.0-0 Bc5 6.Nc3, leobrazer - perrypawnpusher, blitz, FICS, 2009 (0-1, 48), transposes into a variation of the Italian Four Knights Jerome Gambit.
5...Nxe5 6.d4 Neg4
The alternative 6...Ng6 (met with 7.e5) was seen in Philidor1792 - Guest805466, 3 1 blitz, PlayChessBase.com, 2014 (1-0, 62); You-Stranger, blitz, Chess-Samara.ru, 2014 (1-0, 16)) You - Stranger, blitz, Chess-Samara.ru, 2014 (1-0, 17); Philidor1792 - guest1278, blitz, www.bereg.ru, 2014 (1-0, 29); Philidor1792 - Guest691264, 3 0 blitz, Play.ChessBase.com, 2014 (1-0, 14); and Philidor1792 - Juppzupp, 3 0 blitz, PlayChessBase.com, 2014 (1-0, 24).
Instead, 6...Nc6 (also met by 7.e5) was seen in Philidor1792 - guest345, blitz, www.bereg.ru, 2014 (1-0, 15); Philidor1792 - guest3018, blitz, www.bereg.ru, 2014 (½-½, 24); Philidor1792 - guest1334, blitz, www.bereg.ru, 2014 (1-0, 20); You - Stranger, blitz, Chess-Samara.ru, 2014 (1-0, 18); and Philidor1792 - Guest292640, 5 0 blitz, PlayChessBase.com, 2014 (1-0, 50).
Also seen was 6...Nc4 (also met with 7.e5) You - Stranger, blitz, Chess-Samara.ru, 2014 (1-0, 26).
7.e5 Nxf2
I hope Readers have stayed through all of the history and games above, as this game is about to get very violent. After all, Black has two extra pieces, and he can use them as he wishes.
8.Kxf2 Ne4+ 9.Ke1 Qh4+ 10.g3 Nxg3 11.Qf3+
11...Nf5+ 12.Kd1 g6 13.c3 Bh6 14.Bxh6 Qxh6 15.Nd2 Kg7
Black's counter-attack has slowed, but he still has the advantage - starting with a safer King.
16.Ne4 Ne3+ 17.Ke2 Rf8
At this point, Black's plans begin to go haywire - shortness of time?
18.Qxe3 Qxe3+ 19.Kxe3
The game is even - but not for long.
19...d5 20.Nf6 Bf5 21.Nxd5 Be4 22.Kxe4 c6
23.Nc7 g5 24.Nxa8 Rxa8 25.Rhf1 h5 26.Rf6 Rh8 27.Raf1 Black resigned
From the latest collection of Jerome Gambit and Jerome-inspired games by Philidor1792...
Philidor1792 - Stranger
Casual Game, Chess-Samara.ru, 2014
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4
The Evans Gambit.
4...Bb6 5.b5 Na5 6.Bxf7+
With a Jerome Gambit twist.
6...Kxf7 7.Nxe5+ Kf8 8.Bb2
The alternative 8.d3 was seen in Philidor 1792 - guest2019, www.bereg.ru, 2013 (1-0, 33); while 8.Qf3+ appeared in Castled - perrypawnpusher, blitz, FICS, 2008 (0-1, 42).
8...Qf6
A tactical oversight. 8...Qh4 was seen in Philidor 1792 - guest344, www.bereg.ru, 2013 (1-0, 22).
9.Nxd7+ Bxd7 10.Bxf6 Nxf6
Black has three pieces for the Queen - but White has three extra pawns.
11.d3 Bxb5 12.0-0 Re8 13.Nc3 Bc6 14.Ne2 Ke7 15.Ng3 Kd8 16.Kh1 h6 17.f4 Kc8
Black has castled-by-hand - to the Queenside. An interesting battle lies ahead.
18.Nh5 Nxh5 19.Qxh5 Bd7 20.c4 Bd4
Possibly not well thought out, as it surrenders two pieces for a Rook.
21.Qxa5 Bxa1 22.Rxa1 a6
It is time for the "Jerome pawns" to assert themselves.
23.e5 Bc6 24.d4 g5 25.d5 Bd7 26.g3 Bf5 27.Kg1 gxf4 28.gxf4 Rhg8+ 29.Kf2 Bh3 30.Rg1 Rxg1 31.Kxg1 Rg8+ 32.Kf2 Rg2+ 33.Kf3 Rg8
Not 33...Rxh2, because of 34.Kg3, winning a piece.
Now Black's game collapses.
34.d6 cxd6 35.exd6 Bg4+ 36.Ke4 Re8+ 37.Kd5 Bf3+ 38.Kc5 Bc6 39.Qc7 checkmate
